Feminist interviews - interview extract one

Study Title: Mental Health of Chinese Women in Britain, 1945-2000

Information about interviewee
Date of birth: 1950s
Gender: Female
Marital status: Married
Occupation: Housewife
Geographic region: South East of England
Interviewee's name: Fanny
Interview ID: interview01

Date -- 20/7/99
Interviewee - (F)
Interviewer - (I)

In her 40s, married with 2 children. A rather well-off family, they paid about £460 a month on rent. Husband was in his late 40s.

Although she said that she was very quiet, she seemed to be very relaxed and willing to share her views. She studied a master degree in subject and was in a profession before. However she quit her job when her children were born. Housework seemed to be her main source of stress. She had very rather high expectations on her children, their study, appearance, and herself (including her English and her homemaking). I came to her place, a bungalow in {location}, which is immaculate clean and tidy. She may have spent a lot of time on tidying the house. There seems to be a clear division of labour at home. Husband just concentrates on his study and the wife is responsible for everything related to the whole family.

Although she told me that she was now very happy and satisfied with her life here, there seemed to be a time that she had great difficulties (the first year when she came). Her health conditions, such {medical condition} might be a reason .

I: How long have you been here?

F: Nearly four years

I: Nearly four years. You are -- (she started to laugh) relax, it is alright (laugh). Just ignore it (the recorder) (laugh)... You are from Taiwan?

F: Yes, I come from Taiwan.

I: What is your aim in coming here?

F: My husband came here to study for a {qualification}, so we came along too.

I: Did you come here with your husband, or did your husband come over here on his own first?

F: We came here together.

I: Came here together. How do you find the life here?

F: It is alright. I found it quite hard when I first came here, but it is getting better now.

I: Why did you find it hard? Why?

F: No friends.

I: But there are a lot of Taiwanese here.

F: Taiwanese -- we did not know many of them, because the place where we used to live was not close to the university, therefore we did not have much connection. Even though there were some Taiwanese students, they came here to study, also they were..., that is, that is not the same. Of course we have some friends, that is, that is every family has its own problems. Yes, we have some contacts, but that is not as easy as it is in Taiwan.

I: Then what do you feel now?

F: It is better now. Now I know how to get on with my life (laugh).

I: Do you still have any problems in adjusting now?

F: It is better now. It is mainly because the weather, now you know what to wear for different weather. When we first came here, I felt the English people were very reserved. There are some things which we Chinese ... they were very polite, they said things very formally, otherwise they think you are rude. When I first came here, I did not know about that. Now we know they emphasise that, otherwise you are like a barbarian. That is something like that. I don't know whether you have the same feeling?

I: Yes, yes, I have the same feeling too. I don't like it.

F: Yes, now if I hear that, for example, someone has just come over to this country, and they are talking with foreigners, I will tell them, I will tell them if you say it in this way, the hearer will think you are very rude. They don't know how to say it formally. Because we attended the class and our friends told us that the English people like that, you should say it in that way. Also after hearing that for many times, you know how to talk with them in a way that is polite. That is why it is better now.

I: So you understand it now.

F: Yes, yes. But sometimes I still make some mistakes (laugh).

I: You said earlier that it was hard when you first came here - the main reason is what?

F: That is, that is the language problem. Also because of my husband's study. Because they had to study for a master's degree in their first year. Then he did not pass, he could not carry on to do a {qualification}. Although he had a {qualification} already, it was not useful because it was not recognised here. Their department is very tough, they needed to attend the classes, to do the course work, and also to take exams for many subjects.

I: How about your children?

F: They are alright. There is a lot of homework, but not so hard, they are catching up gradually.

I: Did your family come over to see you?

F: Yes, they did. We also have regular contacts. That is not too bad.

I: But do you prefer it if they are close to you or not?

F: Good or bad, it depends. You know we Chinese people are like that. You have a family and then you have some friends. If you have some friends it means that there will be some problems and gossip. I don't know how to say it in English.

I: Yes....

F: I think I think it is the same here.

I: Yes.

F: It is the same here. Of course, relations can help. If you have relations, you can contact them sometimes. But then there may be some troubles. So it can be good or bad, it is difficult to say.

I: What do you think about here?

F: Here, I like the fresher air here.

I: Fresher air.

F: Fresher air. Also, it is very democratic here. In Taiwan, we shouted for democracy for a long time, said how we Chinese people should be, it was all the talk. When we came here and saw what it should be like. I came at the time when Tony Blair won, then he came to power immediately. And the next day, the whole government changed. If that is for we Chinese, it must be at least a few months for the transition. But here the new people took up the job the next day. There was no problem. I found that they are really very democratic.

I: Did you work before you came here?

F: At the very beginning I worked. But I quit the job later when my husband went to {European country}. We stayed there for three years and then we went back to Taiwan. I gave birth to a baby [babies] in {European country}. I did not work again. I have not worked since I came here.

I: You haven't worked for a long time.

F: Haven't worked for a long time, yes.

I: You prefer working or not?

F: At that time, I preferred working. But later I found some advantages in not working. There are some advantages in working too. But now it is not easy to find a job. I have children to look after, for example, to get a job during the time when the children go to school. It is difficult to get a job here.

I: But my previous flatmates from Taiwan, they were able to get some part time jobs. Have you tried?

F: I thought of trying. I talked about that with my husband. But later I found that when I was not at home, my husband would read books in his room and our children would watch television or do something else in the living room. Even when I went to do the shopping and came back late, they would act as if I was not there. When I came back, they would rush to turn off the television. So I wonder whether I should work or do something. Also, it is not easy to get a job. What you can get are those low class jobs -- such as a cleaner or something like that. Then I decided to leave it. I prefer to look after my two children well, because my husband does not care about this. Although I have thought of it, I finally decided not to. So I did not try.

I: But how your husband, does he like you to work?

F: Not bad. He does not say that I must work. He said it is more important to take care of everything at home. That is the main aim of why we came here together. Otherwise we would have been better off not coming and just letting my husband come over here on his own.

I: Yes. My sister told me that being a housewife is very demanding, very hard.

F: Yes, it is very hard. Because you think that you are not working and you are supposed to look after the children and the home well. It is hard.

I: Do you have many friends here now?

F: Now we have some friends here, but they have their own private affairs. I am very friendly with our neighbour -- she is nearly 88 years old.

I: What sort of person is she?

F: She is a widow. She is on her own. We are neighbours. Our neighbours here are quite friendly. But sometimes I find my English is not very good, so I am not very close to them. But it is better with the old lady, because she is quite old and also she is a bit forgetful. She is quite kind. In this area, here in {British location}, most of our neighbours are quite old. They stay in their bungalows and seldom move. Those neighbours are quite good, but -- I don't know-- maybe that is my personality -- not so open. My husband always says that I should go out to know more people, but I think I am not good at communicating with people.

I: No.

F: I am not good at communicating with people. My husband's English is also not very good, but he is very good at chatting with other people. I can't. If there is no topic, I will have nothing to say. I will then sit there and not know what to do. That may be because of my personality. So I am not very familiar with them.

I: But were you the same in Taiwan?

F: In Taiwan, I did not have many friends, only a few. Because I think if we can get along, we are friends. If not, I don't want to waste my time. I don't want to pretend to be friendly.

I: Do you have Taiwanese friends here?

F: I have some, but I met them here after I came to this country. I am quite friendly with a few of them, but some of them have left already.

I: Earlier you said if you didn't feel well, you would go and see the doctor?

F: Yes, if I didn't feel well, I would go and see the doctor.

I: Do you have any difficulties when you go to see the doctor, and is it convenient?

F: What do you mean by "difficulties"?

I: Because some women have told me that they have language problems. Sometimes, the doctors don't understand them.

F: Before I went to see a doctor, if I didn't know how to describe my symptoms, I would look them up in a dictionary beforehand and try to memorise the words. The doctors said -- sometimes, if they used spoken English which I didn't understand, I would ask them to clarify what they had said. I would ask them what it meant. They said "off-colour". What is "off-colour"? I didn't understand the meaning. It means a bit like "ill". I would ask them. Sometimes, I would ask them to write it down for me. But I could not read it, because their handwriting is very sloppy. Very sloppy, so I gave up. Anyway, I took the medicine.

I: Are they helpful?

F: Yes, they are.

I: They are quite good?

F: I feel it is alright, not bad. But of course some doctors are not as good as others. You just have to see if you are lucky. After visiting them for a few times, you know which ones are good and will try to stick with them. I believe there are some good doctors and some bad doctors; it is not possible that all of them are good. People usually try to see the good doctors, therefore if there is an emergency, you may not be able to make an appointment with them. It is impossible and you have to wait, that is the down side of it. I feel that things are always like this.

I: What do think the reasons for this?

F: This behaviour is not just to the foreigners, he is a bit unkind. For example, some doctors will talk a lot with you, but some just ask how you are and then you come out very quickly.

I: Do you feel any cultural difference between you and them?

F: Cultural difference, yes, but it is not just between you and the doctors. We have cultural differences with all the English people. We have different viewpoints on different things. For example, we Chinese are not the same as them -- we are very courteous to our visitors -- "Please come in and take a seat" -- unlike our neighbours; if you chatted with them at their front doors for half an hour, 45 mins, or even an hour, they still would not invite you to go inside. I felt my legs were very sore, I told them that I was very tired, but they did not stop talking. You stood there and they stood there too -- I found it so strange. Later, I realise that those foreigners, they usually won't invite you inside their houses. Now I've learned how to deal with it -- I also may not invite them into my house. Also, sometimes when they come, our house may be a bit messy, then I may just chat with them outside the house for 10 mins or 15 mins. I don't know, they are like that, they won't invite you inside and offer you a cup of tea. The English people are like this.

I: Yes, some of them are more reserved.

F: Yes. Of course, some of them are nice. But most of them are like that. But our opposite neighbour, she is very nice, very nice. Maybe they just get use to being like that. So I feel -- it is something like this. This is why many foreigners visit Taiwan and have the impression that Chinese people are very warm-hearted. This is why.

I: (laugh) Have you ever visited a Chinese doctor here?

F: Yes, once.

I: Once, how did you like it?

F: I threw the medicine away before I finished it (laugh).

I: (laugh) Why?

F: I don't know. The medicine was expensive and the cost was not covered by the NHS, I paid for it myself. I saw the doctor once and took a long time to boil the medicine. I did not drink it. The rest of the medicine was left untouched. And then last summer I visited my sister. She brought me to see a Chinese doctor there -- they have a Chinese doctor there. What he (she) said was not the same as the other doctor.

I: Not the same?

F: Because he (she) felt my pulse -- I feel that some parts of my body have some problems. What they said are not the same, I don't know. That is it.... I need some exercise, it is related to exercise. Your mental condition affects your physical condition. If you are mentally healthy, you will have no problems. If there are some problems with your mental health, then nothing will be alright. I feel they are related.

I: But what medicine do you prefer?

F: you mean Chinese medicine?

I: Yes, yes.

F: It is difficult to say. We Chinese people say that for acute illness, consult a Western doctor; for chronic illness, see a Chinese doctor (laugh). Do you know what I mean?

I: (laugh) Yes.

F: Yes, that's it. If a Western doctor can do nothing, then you need to see a Chinese doctor. But there are many cases in Taiwan when Chinese medicine killed the patients. Of course, there are some good Chinese doctors, but you have to get to the right person. Some are not good and waste your time.

I: Why did you go to see a Chinese doctor at that time? Is it because the GP could not help?

F: It was not mainly because -- it was not because they could not help -- like, how do you say it, there are some women's illness diseases, western doctors cannot diagnose them. They cannot. I went to see them and they said it was normal. They are like that. But Chinese medicine can help, like we Chinese say what sorts of things are "cold" and what sorts of things are "hot", isn't it? You eat "pai choi", you will have a lot of discharges, that is normal. I don't know whether you understand.

I: I also have similar belief.

F: But western doctors don't have this concept. Every time I ate "pai choi", I would have a noticeable reaction to it immediately. The western doctors said it was normal. But Chinese doctors know about the difference. They are different. I went to see Chinese doctors in Taiwan sometimes, I drank the medicine too. The biggest difference between western medicine and Chinese medicine is that, for western medicine, you will see the result in a few days, but for Chinese medicine, it may take a few months, you have to wait. So I really don't know which of them is more effective. Generally, western medicine is effective, but people say drugs are not good.

I: This is one of the reasons of this project. Most of the foreigners think we Chinese, most of us, will go to see Chinese doctors when we fall ill and don't go to see the GPs. That is why the usage of the NHS -- the statistics are so low. That is why we want to find out the reasons. They wonder whether most of the Chinese people prefer to see Chinese doctors.

F: You wonder whether it is because of the language problem? I don't know, I don't know whether those people you are interviewing know English. I think -- are you wondering if those old people who came to this country earlier may not speak English and they may have this problem. There is -- but, because, I have a friend who works in the Chinese medicine centre, on Saturday, they have a lot of foreign patients -- some of them are old men or old ladies. They have a lot of foreign patients.

I: Yes, I was told that most of them are foreigners, they are not Chinese.

F: Not Chinese.

I: Yes. That is why we were surprised. Because we thought most of the patients were Chinese, but it was not so.

F: I found it very expensive. A bag of medicine costs £5, very expensive, it is very expensive. We here -- medicine -- see £5 can last -- I found it very expensive.

I: You mentioned about most of the problems related to mental and physical...

F: Yes, mental and physical, I think they are closely linked. When I first came here, I was not familiar with the environment, I had no friends and also I felt the pressure, I felt very tired, really. I wanted to see a doctor, but didn't know who to go to. Also the doctors, like what I said, the English people -- they said something very formally -- "How are you", "fine" -- just something like this. We went to the class and our teacher told us that if an English people asks "How are you", you must answer "fine", don't say, don't say you have any problems, they won't be prepared to listen to you.

I: Yes?

F: When you have a headache, don't mention it, talk to your doctor about the problem, don't mention it to other people. And when I asked the teacher how to answer, he (she) said to say "not bad", then they would not carry on asking about the problems. They won't ask what part of your body is not well. That is the difference -- we are very warm-hearted, we are like this. But now I know about it, before that I was a bit stupid and didn't understand that, and also no one taught me about that. So now I see some friends -- not from Taiwan, friends from other countries, whom I met mainly in the English class, I see them making the same mistakes as I did. But they are going home soon, so they don't care.

I: The class seems to be quite useful. It teaches you many things.

F: We learned it bit by bit. The course is grade number. The teacher has taught a lot of foreigners. He (she) has a Chinese student, who is a man and is quite old. He was absent for a few days and did not attend the class for a few days. And then when he came back to the class, the teacher asked him what happened and why he had not been attending the class. Probably the teacher asked the question quite casually. But then this Chinese man replied that he had been passing some black excrement (laugh).

I: (laugh)

F: The teacher said "Oh! Oh!". He (she) asked why he said that. But that was what he (she) had asked about. He (she) did not think so. Then he (she) decided to give us a lesson on the cultural difference. He (she) said we English people did not listen to something like this -- how could you mention something like this so casually. But we think that if you ask me, then I should tell you. Because you asked me, so I will tell you. That is quite interesting.

I: But how about yourself, you have been in this country for four years. During which period have you felt happier?

F: When I saw that my children were looked after well (laugh).

I: (laugh)

F: Yes. I find the countryside here very beautiful. Sometimes a trip out is quite good. But I don't like going out so much. It is because before we have a trip out, I have to do the packing. And then when we come back, I need to do a lot of laundry. Do you understand? My husband organised the trip and then when we were back, I had to do the washing. Our children, they enjoyed it very much. And they came back, I had to do the work. I felt very exhausted.

I: (laugh) So you don't go out?

F: No, we still go out. I just don't want to be out for so many days. If we go out for many days, I will feel very exhausted. My husband is a serious person. We travelled on the train -- a few years ago -- about two years ago -- at that time our children were still quite young -- we did not have a car, we travelled by trains. Our children were playing on the train and then my husband said "Look! You foreigners are making a loud noise on the train. That is not good". I said "but they are children". He just worried that they might disturb other passengers. If we were in Taiwan, that would not matter because we were all Chinese. But we are in a foreign country, we should behave better -- I feel this is very tiring. He [my husband] was very serious. The children did not care. But that affected me -- I did not feel the atmosphere was right -- I felt very tired on the journey.

I: Which is the hardest period since you came here?

F: The hardest period, that would be the first year.

I: The first year.

F: The first year.

I: How did you cope with it?

F: I cried. After I cried for a few times, I felt better. If I did not feel good, I cried and then I felt alright.

I: Crying can help? Not for me. After crying, I still need a friend to talk with.

F: I might scold the children -- I don't know -- because my son did not behave well in the first year. How to say -- he was not really behaving badly. Because in Taiwan they had a lot of homework, but here all the sudden -- he realised that he can have a different kind of life. He was still young. He did not know what was right and what was not wrong. In Taiwan we felt that too much homework and pressure was not good. But here I worried that he might fail the exams. I was very worried about him. He is getting better now. He is not bad -- in his school, in the secondary school, some students are behaving very badly, they are really bad. Bullying is very common, real bullying.

I: Here?

F: Here, there are a lot of bad students in their secondary school. They are really bad. They fight. He is not bad, he did not join in, but he did watch. Not bad, he did not join them. He is not bad.

I: Have you talked about that with your friends or someone else, like people who are also parents.

F: Friends? If I have a worry?

I: Yes, would you?

F: I have a friend who is also from Taiwan. But they are going home this year. They also have a family. Because her husband is a job. He quit his previous job. But my husband did not. Our situations are quite similar because her husband is also not young. Her husband is from Hong Kong.

I: Is that so? Can he speak Cantonese?

F: Yes, he can. He is a profession here. They are going home this year. But my friend is a Taiwanese. Her husband lived in Taiwan. They thought of getting a job in Hong Kong because the wages in Hong Kong are high.

I: Yes, yes.

F: But there are not many opportunities there. There are more opportunities in Taiwan, more opportunities in Taiwan.

I: Accounting, accounting in Hong Kong...

F: Not accounting. Her husband does subject. They are going home soon. Sometimes they will chat with us. I also have -- {person} -- {person} is also quite good.

I: Did you meet her when you first came here?

F: Yes, when we first arrived. Because we stayed at {location} and my husband brought my daughter out -- shopping before Christmas -- and met {person}. She is nice. She said that if we had no friends, we could go to their house for Christmas. Since then, we went to their house every Christmas -- 24th, 25th, 27th, we went there (laugh).

I: That is pretty good.

F: {person} is very nice. We know her whole family.

I: Who can you go for if you still have any problems, since your friend is leaving.

F: I still have someone who I got to know through {person}-- {person} (??)-- An English woman. She is quite nice.

I: When you were in Taiwan, if you had any problems, who did you talk to?

F: Neighbours. They could not solve my problems, but after chatting with them, I felt better. The problems were still there, but you had someone to talk to. Talking about it is pretty important

I: Since we are Chinese, do you feel that you have greater pressure in this country?

F: It depends on your aims. If you come here to study only, you leave once you get your degree. If you move to here, it would not be easy to deal with the society here. You are -- a second class citizen. Things are like that. I don't know which kind of circumstances you are talking about? Like us, after we finish the study, we will leave. So all the pressure is only temporary, it will not be -- if I thought about staying here forever, then I'd have a lot to consider. I think they are different.

I: Yes, not the same. Because our orientations are not the same, attitudes are not the same.

F: Not the same. Attitudes are not the same. But I think the children who grow up here, they will be completely different from us. Even in Taiwan, the old generations and young generations are very different, they are really different.

I: But do you prefer staying here?

F: If it is possible, I am willing to do so. Firstly, the environment is better.

I: You mean physical?

F: Yes, it is so disordered in Taiwan, very crowded. A high population and a high number of cars, people are everywhere. During holidays, Oh dear, all the parks are packed with people. You go there and all you can see is people. You will feel -- I don't know how about in Hong Kong.

I: The same.

F: People are everywhere. Also in Taiwan, we need to be quick all the time. People here are slow, and you feel that there is no need to hurry. But in Taiwan, always be quick, be quick, otherwise you can't compete with other people, you can't catch up, you have to be faster than other people. But it is not the same here. The education system is not same as ours. Like last time, my son's school has an award...

I: Ceremony?

F: Yes, ceremony. I attended that. They divided students by their results -- say top group, second group. Of course, they have different expectation on the students from the top group and the second group -- the teachers are not the same and neither is the homework. I found that they gave out the award to both groups of students. I was surprised to see one of the students -- because a girl who was my son's classmate in the primary school, she is also living in {location}, she came to see my son quite often. She pressed the bell and said she wanted to play with {son}. I found her so strange and I told her that {son} hadn't finished his homework yet. I asked her whether she would like to come in and do some work. She said yes. Then I found some homework for her to do. Two girls, they were two girls, their levels were not the same. It turned out that that girl did not know how to do multiplication. Then I did addition and subtraction with them. For the subtraction, she knew how to do minus nine, minus 10, but not minus 11. Because she used her fingers. For example, I said 31 minus 9, she did it in this way. She did not know how to do more than 10. I asked her to write down the time-table, but she could not. I asked her what year she was in -- year 5 -- in year 5, she still did not know how to do those things. She only knew how to read the time from a digital display, not the other way to tell the time. And on the ceremony that day -- she got an award for maths. I was very surprised. It sounds impossible -- she should not have been able to make such great progress in such a short time. It may be, because her teacher thought that her performance in the second group was quite good -- she also got a certificate. In Taiwan, this is not possible. I don't know about the other people, but I know her well because I had taught her. At that time, I also asked her to do a calculation -- I've forgotten the question already -- she did not do it correctly. How come she also got an award? People here have a different concept about what standard should be achieved to give out an award -- you don't have to get 100 to get an award. This is quite good for the children. This is quite a good learning environment. The homework and project which my son is doing is very different from what we used to do. When we were students, we had to do the homework and also pass all the tests. But here students need to search for a lot of books and to plan how to go about their work. For the children, here is better.

I: It may be better for the children, but how about for the adults, for example, how about job opportunities, friends...

F: Yes, less good. But my husband is better because he has got quite a lot of friends. He is better at speaking -- maybe this is down to his personality -- I think so -- so he has got quite a lot of friends.

I: But his friends are also your friends, aren't they?

F: His friends are mainly those from the university. He is also quite friendly with the teachers.

I: But do you gather together with them?

F: Yes, but I did not talk a lot. You might not think that way as I talk a lot with you (laugh).

I: Yes, yes, I don't think you can't talk a lot.

F: (laugh) My husband said "Look, how much you can talk -- you chatted on the phone for such a long time, how come you say you don't talk much" ... I don't have a lot to say, I don't have a lot to say. Unless I talk to those I am familiar with, otherwise I don't have much to say, especially in English conversations. The other day -- it is the holidays at the moment and we have no classes at the university -- a few "Tai Tai", who are going home soon, contacted {person}. Do you know her? -- {person}-- she is retired.

I: No.

F: She used to share the same office with him (her?). {person} retired last year. They asked {person} to teach us English and we paid a little bit of money. My course has finished already, so I went to that class. It is good to have a chance to speak a bit of English. I went to the class. A bit like an infection, they all got pregnant. Four of them got pregnant. They are still quite young, but they are pregnant. They talked about pregnancy and I listened to them. {person} asked me to talk about something. If she did not call my name, I would just sit there and not say a lot. I am usually like that. I sit there quietly. My husband often comments on it. Although I know that it is not good, I find it difficult to change myself.

I: I feel that you are very active -- you visit other people.

F: Our friend said that I care too much about what other people think of me. She did not care. That is if I know how you think of me -- when I say something, I know you would think of me like that. I care too much about other people. I am looking for perfection. She does not care -- even though her English is not good, she still tries. I listen to her on the phone, I think she is a bit impolite. I think people would not understand our English. I said just say the main points, if they don't understand, what can we do? Then we will forget about all the polite words, like "please". When I listen to her, I was worrying about her. But when I say that myself, I make the same mistakes.

I: Is your husband more relaxed?

F: My husband, not really. But he is good at having funny chats with other people.

I: you mean he is a fun person.

F: I give your example. A man came to repair -- to check... (point to the firework)

I: Firework.

F: Firework. To check the gas. He chatted with my husband. My husband asked his name -- {name} -- a teacher at his department had the same first name and surname as the man -- he asked whether they had any connection. The man said his cousin had the same name as him, but he was not working at the university. Then my husband -- my husband's surname is {name}-- told him that his surname in Chinese also means "{name}", so they were both "{name}" -- belonging to the royal family. They both broke into a big laugh. (laugh).

I: (laugh).

F: I don't know how to chat with people like this.

I: Neither do I.

F: I don't know how to do that too. He is so capable -- he knows how to do that. I can't. It seems that it is in the nature of him. I listen to him and find it very interesting.

I: Yes. That is quite good.

F: He is capable of doing that. So he has a lot of friends. He has a lot of friends.

I: But I think you can do the same because you are also willing to chat with people.

F: I don't know. If it is not necessary, I won't say anything in the classroom, I just listen.

I: But are you going to the class and attending the sports day?

F: Sports day -- it was because my son asked me to go there. I had to go. I did not go in the first year, and my son said "Mum, you did not come". Now he has quite a lot of friends. I did not go on some school trips with him. He asked me to go, but I did not. I don't know what I should do. If I go with him, I would remind him what to do and what not to do. I feel I will lose face. As a mother, I think I should tell him what is right and what is not right. But the foreign mothers don't care about this. I think if I went with him, I would be in charge of him. I don't think that is good. He would have more freedom if I don't go. I think I would not be able to control myself not to interfere.

I: Is your expectation a bit high?

F: Maybe. Our attitude towards children -- the cultures are completely different -- their mums don't care. They said give them freedom and they would learn it themselves later. I don't know. But our Chinese mums will tell our children what is right and then ask them to follow it and not to make mistakes. We tell them what is right. I don't know. We tell them to do this, not to do that -- the foreigners don't. A friend of mine, who is a teacher, told us that his (her) child jumped down from a high place. I said it was dangerous. At that time, my daughter was very small -- I was a bit worried. He (she) went to a pub with us. He (she) did not worry about his (her) child and said that his (her) child knew how to get down from the high place. But I worried. Place children in a high position and let them come down themselves -- I find it very ... looking for a word.)

I: Dangerous?

F: Yes, it is dangerous. But they have a different concept. He (she) is a teacher, he (she) has the experience and he (she) did not worry. But I worry a lot about my children. So I think I would better not go with my son.

I: You said earlier that the life here is more relaxing. Does that imply that people here are healthier?

F: No, I don't think so. I think that is because of the fresher air, a lot of space, a slower pace of life, so people here live longer. Also, because the welfare for the elderly people is good. I find that the social benefits here are good. Each month the elderly people can get £70, is it £70 or more...

I: I don't know.

F: The old lady next door gets £70. Mainly because the rhythm of life here is slower. Every Wednesday, they go to 'place', a kind of centre for the elderly people -- they come and bring them out. Every Wednesday.

I: They come every wed? That is quite good.

F: Every Wednesday. They bring them -- take them to the car. If you can't wash your hair or take a bath, they will help you. They help them to do what they can't do at home. Also, they give them tea and lunch. That is good. It is impossible in Taiwan. They paid £3 or £4, it is not expensive. Of course, you can't get the biscuits or bread twice. Coffee should be alright .... potatoes -- they have a Christmas party -- quite good -- the council pays for that. That is very good. Sometimes they go to see art exhibitions, to pubs. I find that is quite good. They have meals delivered to them.

I: yes.

F: Our next door's next door neighbour is 88. Our next door neighbour is also 88. He was 87 and this year he was 88. He is male. Our next door neighbour is a lady and she cooks for herself. But that man -- his wife has died already and he has no children -- so sometimes he has that kind of meal. It is very convenient as they are delivered to his home. He simply puts them into the oven. I feel the welfare benefits for the elderly people are better here. Also they are a bit different from us Chinese. We Chinese have the concept that bringing up children to help with their old age. They are not like this. The next door old lady, she is clever. Although she wants to have her son around, she thinks that her son has his own family problems and she does not want to disturb him. She is very good. She is clever. She said they had their own life, she did not want to go and disturb them. So her son helps her do the shopping every Thursday and buys her a newspaper and a lottery ticket every Saturday. That it is. Although she wants her son to come to see her, but she does not force him do so. To be like this is not ...

I: Not easy.

F: Yes, not easy. This is different from us Chinese. Some people may ask for help, but she is not like that. She will try to do things herself. She does not want people to think she is troublesome. She does not want people to feel disgusted with her. Her thinking is different from us.

I: Then do you think that we Chinese people here are healthier?

F: Healthier? I think first you have a job, you have money -- that is very important -- you have money -- then if you want to do something, like go to see a doctor, you will have no problem, isn't that so? If you want to live in a nice place, then it is no problem. Like here there are some areas -- with a lot of single parents, they use bad language. You have a stable income, that is very important, and you can live very healthily, I think (laugh).

I: (laugh).

F: Isn't that so? You have money, you can afford to see a doctor or to be ill. A study has shown that rich people live longer (laugh). This is true. Rich people don't have to worry too much before they go to see a doctor. They don't have to take some difficult or dangerous jobs.

I: how about the health service of this country? Is it quite good?

F: Yes, but there is nothing more than that. If you need further treatment, you have to join the long waiting list. The dental treatment is expensive. The dental treatment is expensive. Some people don't have money to pay for that. This also happens.

I: What do you think about mental health? ... What do think about it?

F: Religions can be part of it. I feel religions can be very influential. I don't know whether those Chinese "Tai Tai" and Chinese ladies, who you have interviewed, have any religion. I think religions can be a factor. When we were in Taiwan, my husband was always very busy and I felt very bored at home all day. I sometime asked him to bring me out after his work. I told him that I was bored, tired, and was not comfortable staying at home. Later, I became a Buddhist. I bought some tapes and I felt better.

I: (laugh).

F: Sometimes, I listened to the tapes, to the Buddhist sermons. I felt better. Here some people go to church, I don't think it is useful. But many people don't go to church, many people don't go to church. Some people have gatherings at their homes or their friend's homes. Some people are doing that. Like this morning, I went to my daughter's sports day, her friend -- her classmate's mum -- her classmate's brother is the classmate of my son -- so we are quite familiar with each other. She does not like her mum's attitude towards religion -- she has her own interpretation about the Bible. Anyway, she is a good person. She probably doesn't go to church.

I: But do you go to church?

F: No, I don't.

I: You don't go there.

F: I don't, I am a Buddhist.

I: Are you still listening to those tapes here?

F: No. I've brought those tapes with me, but I haven't listened to them yet (laugh).

I: (laugh) Why didn't you listen to them?

F: Firstly, I cannot find it possible to calm myself down, there are so many things to do and I cannot stop. I've brought some books with me, but I have not read them either.

I: But I think there is quite a lot of spare time here, isn't there?

F: It depends -- take the children to school and bring them home, and then go shopping. There should be plenty of time, but it is busy -- time is flying. After you take the children to the school, you don't have time to do much and then it is time to bring them home. I used to attend the class as well. I went to watch films with my friends a few times, and my husband went to pick up the children. Otherwise, I would not have been able to do that, if I had had to rush back to pick the children up. Now I also do the ironing, We didn't iron our clothes in Taiwan.

I: (laugh).

F: But here we have to do the ironing. I do it on my own, I do the ironing for four people, it is very tiring.

I: Very tiring.

F: Our children -- my son in the secondary school -- they have a lot of clothes. I don't know. He told me that his friend's mum did not wash his clothes for him -- every times he had a PE class, he used the spray to get rid of the odour. I said it would not be clean by just using the spray, the stain would still be there. The boy is dirty.

I: So you spend a lot of time doing...

F: Housework? Yes. I spend a lot of time doing housework. I want my children going out with clean clothes, I don't want them to be dirty. If there is any dirt on their clothes, I will wash them as soon as possible. One of my daughter's friends came to our house, they are dirty -- their mums don't do the washing --. it is not good. It is not important whether the clothes are good quality or not, but they should be clean.

I: That is pretty good ... Does any of your family members go to see a Chinese doctor? Apart from yourself -- you went to see a Chinese doctor once, how about your family members?

F: My family members are in Taiwan.

I: Your children?

F: Only I have seen a Chinese doctor here. But in Taiwan, they all go to see Chinese doctor.

I: How about your husband?

F: My husband. In Taiwan, yes, he did.

I: But not here?

F: He doesn't like going to see a doctor here.

I: Why? Is he very healthy?

F: I don't know. He is not very healthy -- he likes taking medicine.

I: You mean he takes his own medicine. He takes his own medicine without seeing a doctor...

(Side B)

I: They gave you antibiotics, didn't they?

F: I would take them, but he -- he said antibiotics are not effective. I said how come you expect a result by taking them just twice -- they are not poison. You have to take the antibiotics for several days before you see the result.

I: Yes, yes.

F: I said that to him. It is hopeless. He does not see a doctor.

I: Does your family prefer Chinese medicine, your family?

F: No (laugh).

I: No (laugh).

F: The children don't have to pay for the treatment if you go to see a western doctor, but not a Chinese doctor. But for the chronic illnesses, I think Chinese medicine is better. For the children, western medicine is more effective. For example asthma -- like my son, he suffers from asthma when the weather is not good ...

I: I have that too.

F: You have that too. Ice-cold food is not good for asthma. But children can't resist ice-cold food. They need exercise in that kind of weather. Recently he hasn't taken the medicine. Do you use an inhaler?

I: I did.

F: How about now?

I: Not now. I am not using it now, I have sore throat and it is very uncomfortable. I am not coughing now. I am not using it now.

F: How long have you used it for?

I: No. If I used it every day, I found my throat was very sore and I didn't like it.

F: Which one did you use -- blue or brown?

I: I used both.

F: When did you stop? ... Summer, when the weather is better.

I: Since March.

F: March -- it was still quite cold at that time. My son -- I told him recently -- your inhaler has steroids, isn't it? That one is not good, it can be addictive.

I: I asked them and they said it did not matter.

F: But that is not good. I talked with him, he studies medicine -- He talked to my son, but my son did not believe it -- he found using it very convenient -- he was surprised to hear that it could be additive -- he felt in great pain without it. When the weather got cold, he thought he needed it. Later, I told him that it was not good, not good, not good. Gradually, he gets better -- he forces himself not to use it. Sometime, I saw he was going to be short of breath, but he would overcome it and get better later. He did not use an inhaler in Taiwan. He started to use it here and it was not easy to stop. How many years did you use it for?

I: I started to use it last September... I did not have asthma before. I asked them why I got it, they said it is probably because of stress.

F: Stress?

I: They said many people did not realise it... But I didn't like it -- it made me uncomfortable.

F: You felt uncomfortable if you used it, but he felt uncomfortable if he did not use it.

I: Maybe we are not the same. It may be because I worried about the steroids, so I didn't like it.